Thursday, January 10, 2008

Poll: NL East's Best Pen

As you might notice I have put up a second poll on the sidebar. This was inspired by a somewhat heated conversation over at Mlbtraderumors.com. Here are some statements that were made:
  1. Me: "Mets bullpen VS Braves pen: Wagner >>> Soriano; Sanchez > Gonzalaz; Heilman >> Moylan; Joe Smith > Manny Acosta; My five year old neighbor > Joey Devine How can you possibly say the braves have a better pen. That's like saying Glavine is a better number three starter than Oliver Perez..."
  2. Andy Braves Fan: "...Braves have 2 proven closers with Soriano and Mike Gonzalez (should be back in June). Joey Devine has been a top closing prospect, Manny Acosta, etc. Please, know what you are talking about before you rant. The Braves bullpen was so strong that they traded 1/4 of it for other needs."
  3. Dee Edge: "...[The Braves] still need bullpen help the only have one soold guy in tha pen soriano and he faded last yr too." (Translation: Soriano is the only solid pitcher in the Braves pen and even he faded at the end of the year)

So I'll let you decide! Make sure to vote soon! This poll expires on the 27th.

11 comments:

Anonymous said...

your comparisons were pretty much right on with the exception of Hielman being better than moylan. moylan was a legit rookie of the yr. candidate!

Anonymous said...

moylan sux. hes just lucky he throws weird. otherwise he would get rocked but heilman (learn how to spell players names) sux too so i guess thats a wash. still the mets are better and will win it all this year

Anonymous said...

y arent the nats up there. cordero and rauch r 2 of the best relievers in the game.

csg said...

who cares about opinions, lets just look at the stats from last year. (minimum 20 IP)

Braves vs Mets #1

Moylan 5-3 1.80ERA 90IP 65H 18ER 31BB 63K's
Wagner 2-2 2.63ERA 66IP 55H 22ER 22BB 80K's

Braves vs Mets #2

Soriano 3-3 3.00ERA 72IP 47H 24ER 15BB 70K's
Heilman 7-7 3.03ERA 86IP 72H 29ER 20BB 63k's

Braves vs Mets #3

Acosta 1-1 2.28ERA 24IP 13H 6ER 14BB 22K's
Smith 3-2 3.45ERA 44IP 48H 17ER 21BB 45K's

no doubt the Braves had the better pen last year, just look at Paronto's, Ring's, and Mahay's #'s also.

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?c_id=atl

Of course you wont agree, but Mike Gonzalez is one of the best shutdown lefty relievers in baseball.

anonymous' #2 post, please explain how Moylan sucks and for that matter how can he get rocked by Heilman?
btw, Mets arent better on paper right now

Chris Goudoras said...

csg-
You can't compare Moylan with Wagner. Wagner is a closer who pitches in tough situations all year; also, pitching one inning at a time. Therefore, every run he gives up gets magnified in his era. Wagner had a better K/9 which is one of the only stats that you can use to adequately compare relievers.Plus, it's just a matter of time before Moylan gets figured out like ll hard-throwers with a funky delievery do.
Also, I like how you made the minimum requirement 20IP to accomadate Acosta. Joe Smith, who you compared him to, didn't allow any runs in his first 24 innings! There is no way Acosta would of kept up those numbers.
And after looking at the numbers, I'd rather have Heilmn than Soriano. He's proven to be much more durable, and even when he has his meltdowns, they're not as bad as Soriano's.
BTW- Mahay is gone. he is not on the team so he doesn't count toward your present pen.
Ring- inconsistent and only gets bad players out.
Poronto- to fat to pitch.
I believe the Mets have a way better pen right now.

Billy the kid said...

How can anybody debate that the braves pen is nearly as good as the Mets. Looking at the polls it is obvious that some of the braves fans are stacking the ballot. there are only 10 votes on the old post and more than double that on the new one. heres the way i see it:
Wagner > soriano
sanchez healthy > gonzalez healthy
sanchez unhealthy almost equal to gonzalez healthy
smith > moylan
heilman > whoever that acosta guy is
feliciano > all the braves pitchers
muniz > devine

MINTwin21 said...

I don't like how biased people in these forums are. Since I am neither a Met or Braves fan (as a matter of fact the whole NL irks me) I'll give an unbiased opinion.
Wagner > Soriano (No brainer)
Heilman = Moylan (too close)
Feliciano = Gonzalez (now pedro's better since gonzo's hurt)
Acosta = Sanchez (if duaner's healthy)
Smith > Ring/Paronto/McBride
It does look like the Mets are better, but not by all that much. but I'd say the fact that the mets do have a better pen is undisputable.

csg said...

I know I have no chance in this forum, but here goes. I actually thought we were talking about last years pen. You said Mahay was gone, but then brought up Paronto. Why? He was released last year and McBride was traded, so we can toss out that opinion. Wagner is one of the best closers in baseball, no doubt about it. I would take him over Soriano at the same cost any day. But I dont think I can reason with anyone who doesnt look at all the numbers.

Yeah Smith didnt allow any runs in his first 24IP, but so what, look what happened after that. Moylan and Heilman produced very similar numbers, but according to the stats Moylan beat him in almost all of them. They also pitched in the same type of game situations. I dont buy the "well the other teams will figure him out either" that implies that every pitcher will get worse over his career. Pitchers and hitters both have to adjust we'll wait and see.

Looking at the career stats, please explain how either Sanchez or Feliciano are better than Mike Gonzalez...

Mike Gonzalez 172IP 131H 44ER 82BB 196K 2.29ERA 1.23WHIP .210BAA

Feliciano 197IP 178H 70ER 85BB 176K 3.20ERA 1.34WHIP .239BAA

Sanchez 229IP 220H 97ER 95BB 168K 3.81ERA 1.37WHIP .258BAA

both teams have very good pieces in their pen's, I just dont see how you guys think everyone one of your pitchers are better than the Braves. Just not true

Please dont say that the poll is just being overboarded by Braves fans, there is no way to tell that. Thats just what happens when you post a poll on the internet. Dont complain about the results

Chris Goudoras said...

At least CSG knows what he's talking about. Until yesterday I thought Braves fans were all smart. At least CSG proves that for every ignorant, obstinant, and unreasonably conceited Braves fan, there is one who is down to Earth.

Chris Goudoras said...

BTW- I forgot all about Paronto being let go. Insignificant stuff like that doesn't keep my interest well.

RollingWave said...

It's a wash, bullpens are always hard to predict anyway, at this point i like the Mets a little more but any one guy going nuts or suddenly exploding would tip the balance. such is the nature of bullpens.

it also has a lot to do with how the starters fare, the Yankee pen looked worse than it really was last year because more often then not their starter gets bombed on consecutive days (either by hits or litterally bombed... like line drive to the 60 day DL)

If i was to venture a guess, i'll take the Brave's staff next year. the Mets have wayyyy too many uncertainties at the moment, it could mean that they rock, but it could also mean that they suck .